Curse

ScaryDrifter · Sep 03, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

I play an MMO to interact with people, not to further disconnect myself from them by 'going to wiki'. I use wiki if I must, but having conversations with helpful people and helping people when I can is part of the MMO experience for me. Why go and use a search engine when I can speak with a living breathing person?

Kusandaa · Sep 03, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

My own experience with this:

I started playing in July '05. Everyone was rather new at the game and people seemed more friendly. There wasn't a lot of elitism going on simply because there was not much to be elitist about... when you'd ask questions in-game and asked it well, you'd get a reply. I don't recall people spamming madly.

Today?
Guy #1: "CN U TELL ME WHN TEH EVENT STARTS PLZ???????"
Guy #1: "CN U TELL ME WHN TEH EVENT STARTS PLZ???????"
Guy #1: "CN U TELL ME WHN TEH EVENT STARTS PLZ???????"
Guy #2: "Look at the message when you log on."
10 seconds later:
Guy #1: "CN U TELL ME WHN TEH EVENT STARTS PLZ???????"
Guy #1: "CN U TELL ME WHN TEH EVENT STARTS PLZ???????"

Some tools aren't promoted enough, some aren't obvious enough and people WILL skip what's skippable - like login messages. Sometimes I just wish there was a bright red message saying "For more information, type /Wiki and the term you're searching for to access Guild Wars Wiki"... but it's still not obvious enough for people.

I hate netspeak, can't stand it. It sounds extremely childish to me and personally, it takes more time for me to type bad English than good English. I understand it's not everyone whose first language is English, myself included, but at least I make efforts to sound polite and not rude. If someone comes to me and asks me a question in heavy netspeak, I'll sound pretty cold. Use good English - or well, at your best - and I'll probably even start a convo on something else.

I do roughly the same on forums. Trolls are annoying most of the time though, and I stopped being surprised at the amount of topics that close after so many "+1!!!!!!" and "in b4 close". There was a decent topic on GW economy and it got closed 'cause of mass flames IIRC... I mean you can't even have decent conversations without a troll attempt, in which everyone acts like a sheep and eventually lead to the closure of the topic... and it's sad. That's why I barely create topics here; it'll most likely get people to troll or flame and I won't get any result because it'll get closed.

Gill Halendt · Sep 03, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

stitchersflock has a point. Many times new players feel uncertain and do not want canned information. They would like a live answer to their question.

Indeed. That's what forums and the likes are supposed to be for. Redirecting people asking for help to the Wiki or any other help page makes most of this forum useless. Just put a link to the Official Wiki on the mainpage and get rid of most of the support forums, since most of the informations a player could ever need are there.

This forum IS big. I know, there's a useful Search function. I know, there are sticky threads and guides. Yet it might not be that easy for a newcomer to browse through such a huge quantity of helpful information.

I know it's frustrating to repeat always the same things, but this attitude tends to put some people off, making those forums a bit unwelcoming. Well, at least that's how I feel, and I've been playing regularly since the very first day, so I'm no "noob" anymore and I've not that much help to ask for. Dear me, hope I never need to.

Flaming newcomers is mean, whatever their request is, for how stupid and obvious it could ever be.

Inde · Sep 03, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

While I certainly don't want any newcomer to feel unwelcome, there still needs to be maintained a sense of organization and flow to the forum. Which means that basic questions need to be isolated away from a build discussion, or a debate on the price of an item in game. Otherwise the sheer amount of information becomes even more overwhelming and serves to only further confuse and alienate forum members.

Is there a way we can point out more directly our Q&A section for newcomers? As moderators, I can tell you that I have to move at least 3-4 threads a day from Riverside into our Q&A section to keep out any negativity and allow other discussion to continue. Is there a title or section change that we need?

I would also challenge and encourage our veterans to stop by our Q&A section every once in a while to help out new players or those with questions. Just being able to run through a couple of threads and help out new players helps out everyone.

Miska Bow · Sep 03, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

THE ULTIMATE ANTI-FLAME SUIT

Ctb · Sep 03, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Ignore is your friend. The majority of people on GWG aren't worth talking to, none are worth arguing with. Judicious use of your ignore list will quickly excise the most childish posters from your view and greatly enhance your forum experience.

This applies to most of the internet, in fact.

Quote:

While I certainly don't want any newcomer to feel unwelcome....

While trying to enhance the system is always welcome, as a programmer, this seems to be a people problem, not a technical problem. It's not that the information isn't there, or its inaccessible (the contrary, compare GWG's structure to the WoW forum's structure some day. That place is a disaster and finding anything is a painful chore, while everything on GWG is pretty well and clearly fleshed out), it's that some people either a) can't ignore a question worth ignoring or b) can't just answer a question without lording their godly knowledge over other people.

I don't see how you're going to fix it through programming. The trouble the op is referring to is that many people are, simply, ass****s on the internet because it makes them feel big and tough. You can't fix that through code. Yet.

Magikarp · Sep 03, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by stitchersflock

This forum is extremely frustrating and unwelcoming to new players. It is understandable that old players have seen a lot of changes to the game since its release. However, does that give ANY of you the right to be so dismissive of questions posed by new players or so judgmental in your responses? I've never actually posted here because I didn't feel the need to subject myself to such input from complete and utter strangers. I'm lucky I found a guild and alliance that is not only helpful but understands that at one time every player in a NEW player. Did any of you stop to consider that the reason you have so many gripes, complaints, and belly aches about the game is because you have forgotten that you were once new to the game and you too needed help at one time? Or did you all start out as perfect players who knew everything and were the gift to the gaming world?

I realize this thread will promptly be locked by moderators and/or I'll be trashed by the overwhelming majority of posters to this forum, but that says more about you than it does about me.

I agree with you, and I know a lot of others that do. I'm a long time player, but I'll never put down my memories of what it's like being new in an online game, because to me, its what makes or breaks the entire experience.

glad you found a guild/allies though

Koudelka · Sep 03, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kusandaa

That's why I barely create topics here; it'll most likely get people to troll or flame and I won't get any result because it'll get closed.

I tend to get caught out by trolls, especially when they actually believe in what they're saying...

Quote:

Guy #1: "CN U TELL ME WHN TEH EVENT STARTS PLZ???????"
Guy #1: "CN U TELL ME WHN TEH EVENT STARTS PLZ???????"
Guy #1: "CN U TELL ME WHN TEH EVENT STARTS PLZ???????"
Guy #2: "Look at the message when you log on."
10 seconds later:
Guy #1: "CN U TELL ME WHN TEH EVENT STARTS PLZ???????"
Guy #1: "CN U TELL ME WHN TEH EVENT STARTS PLZ???????"

This happens... every time an event is on. Exactly like this xD. I've been playing since October 2005 and I can't really remember if this happened when wintersday was first on, but I guess the answer was "no one knows". Sometimes I swear people that spam like that are bots with but one purpose: to annoy.

Quote:

I understand it's not everyone whose first language is English, myself included, but at least I make efforts to sound polite and not rude.

My guild thinks I am Spanish. I have no idea how that reflects on me! : P

Aeon221 · Sep 03, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Uh, see, if you're playing an online game, you have access to the internet. If you have access to the internet, you have access to google. If you have access to google, you can google your question. If you google a question about Guild Wars, it will lead you either here or to one of the wikis.

If you can't figure that out, you pretty much deserve to be mocked until the existence of google is burned into your skull. Here, lemme try to illustrate the point I'm making.

Look.

http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1...rs+help+a+newb

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...wb&btnG=Search

Unfortunately, searching for "Guild Wars help im a goddamn retard" didn't pop any good links.

Ferret Deathsquad · Sep 03, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by stitchersflock

I've never actually posted here because I didn't feel the need to subject myself to such input from complete and utter strangers. Did any of you stop to consider that the reason you have so many gripes, complaints, and belly aches about the game is because you have forgotten that you were once new to the game and you too needed help at one time?

I realize this thread will promptly be locked by moderators and/or I'll be trashed by the overwhelming majority of posters to this forum, but that says more about you than it does about me.

I would say when you post on ANY FORUM you have a 50/50 chance of being flamed. Also you do make some good points in your comments, your delivering is setting yourself up to be flamed. I'm glad to hear you found a Guild and Alliance that helps you out, not everyone is so lucky. You also have to understand most of the exprienced players do get sick of NOOBS begging for free stuff (gold, items for armor, and weapons) or for them to run someone here or through a mission. I myself have helped people for no reason then to help and then have them ask me to run them through the next three missions. I'm not flaming you but trying to make you understand the other side of the coin.

stitchersflock · Sep 03, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

Uh, see, if you're playing an online game, you have access to the internet. If you have access to the internet, you have access to google. If you have access to google, you can google your question. If you google a question about Guild Wars, it will lead you either here or to one of the wikis.

If you can't figure that out, you pretty much deserve to be mocked until the existence of google is burned into your skull. Here, lemme try to illustrate the point I'm making.

Look.

http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1...rs+help+a+newb

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...wb&btnG=Search

Unfortunately, searching for "Guild Wars help im a goddamn retard" didn't pop any good links.

Thanks for making my point for me so beautifully!

Damian979 · Sep 03, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

I'm sorry but I am just too busy getting my OMG UBER LEETZ obby armor,mask of the mo zing, and chaos gloves to go with my voltaic spear and tormented shield to bother with noobie crap.

jk agree with OP, too many people suffer from small lower extremity syndrome to admit that they were once new too.

Masao · Sep 03, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

I think most people assume that even new players have the intelligence to Google for an answer to their question, or Google for helpsites or Wikis.

Before I even started playing GW (About a year ago) I had already combed the Wiki for ways to get a jumpstart on farming, quests, armor sets, and general builds and uses for each class.

I know this shouldn't be expected of all new players but as long as there is Google there is no point asking questions when you can search for the answer yourself.

If I'm asked a question I'll answer but honestly if you have Internet access and can't be bothered to search for the answer yourself, you probably don't deserve it.

snaek · Sep 03, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

u kno bak in teh day...
we had to figure most of teh stuffs ourselves
or use search engines to find any decent info

now u guys have wiki and pvxwiki and even a built-in-game help search
yet they still must have to have all teh answers given to them
they cant be bothered to go out and find out for themselves

regardless, i have no clue wut ur talkin bout
cuz most of teh topics in teh questions forum of guru still get answered pretty decently

in-game is another story
cuz annoying spammer beggar nubs r annoying spammer beggar nubs

Ec]-[oMaN · Sep 03, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

honestly if you have Internet access and can't be bothered to search for the answer yourself, you probably don't deserve it.

Pretty sure when I start a new game that is complex to a newcomer and requires some questions, you google, find a fansite like this, then proceed to use the search function on the fansite. If I didn't find what I'm looking for, I ask. Too bad over the years, seems as if the new gaming generation are either dumb as hell or spoiled IRL and demand attention and answers asap. Let's not even get into the ones that post questions in the wrong sections also.
Problem is, as a game matures, so do the fansites, long time gamers/posters have seen an unheard of amount of the same questions over and over, which leads them to either be frustrated themselves or simply stop visiting the site.
This seems like a rant thread, and it's even more directed at this website more-so than Guildwars.

stitchersflock · Sep 03, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Yep you are right it is a rant thread. I'm well over the age of 20 and yet it is immediately assumed, by the type of individuals that prevent newcomers from feeling welcomed on this forum, that I cannot find answers via search engines or old threads. Problem with old threads on forums such as these is quite simple ... the game evolves and that means that the answers to my questions may or may not be answered by outdated threads.

I don't have any rants to direct at Guild Wars. I've only been playing since May and I have no cause for complaint. It was and is the game I was looking for and expecting. If I were unhappy with changes made by the game, I'd go find something else to play rather than whining.

Shadowhaze · Sep 03, 2008, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Indeed. That's what forums and the likes are supposed to be for. Redirecting people asking for help to the Wiki or any other help page makes most of this forum useless. Just put a link to the Official Wiki on the mainpage and get rid of most of the support forums, since most of the informations a player could ever need are there.

This forum IS big. I know, there's a useful Search function. I know, there are sticky threads and guides. Yet it might not be that easy for a newcomer to browse through such a huge quantity of helpful information.

I know it's frustrating to repeat always the same things, but this attitude tends to put some people off, making those forums a bit unwelcoming. Well, at least that's how I feel, and I've been playing regularly since the very first day, so I'm no "noob" anymore and I've not that much help to ask for. Dear me, hope I never need to.

Flaming newcomers is mean, whatever their request is, for how stupid and obvious it could ever be.

Well said.

And also agreed organization is necessary. Often I'll see a thread that's been posted before and then closed by a mod with the last post redirecting the op to the similar thread, which is great.

Some people are new and maybe have no idea on what/where to search for certain things (on wiki or forums) or are uncertain where they should post things (Yes, some are fairly self expanatory.

). It is possible. But it's also true, some just ask because they don't feel like searching. Either way, flaming and name calling isn't necessary.

Nightow · Sep 03, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Stitchersflock, I see that this is the only thread you have posted in since joining Guru so I'm curious. What exactly has prevented you from feeling welcomed on this forum?

boarderx · Sep 03, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

have you seen how ppl act on here, its rediculous id be very hesitant to post anything too

stitchersflock, i agree with you, this place is very unforgiving i just try to weed through the bullshit and find a few good gems of info (which isnt easy at times) lol. Ima send you a PM that might help you out

snaek · Sep 03, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Stitchersflock, I see that this is the only thread you have posted in since joining Guru so I'm curious. What exactly has prevented you from feeling welcomed on this forum?

honestly...i frequent teh q&a forum often
and i see helpful answers moreso than flames

the campfire & glads arena is a diff story
bad builds generally call for a flame

i mean if a nub wants to tell a pro that he knows better than him
and that [word of healing] needs to be nerfed
then quite frankly, he needs to be put in his place